This is another reason why MS is clueless about conusmers and why the Zune will fail. The reason for the success of itunes comes down to one thing. ONE CLICK will buy, load and sync ALL the media that Apple sells once you have your account set up. People want their life easier - not harder. Yes, you can buy itunes cards which MS confuses as the same thing but it's straight cash for cash. You buy a $15 card, you get $15 USD worth of "stuff." Basically what MS is trying to accomplish is Disney Dollars which are okay for kids INSIDE Disneyland but what adult wants to trade REAL currency for Disney dollars or in this case, MS dollars? Why freakin' bother? You save no money AND it's more confusing - EVERY adult who's smart enough to buy a Zune and hook up to the Zune can plainly see that they are trying to cheat you with suberfuge ... this is MS arrogance and why they don't get consumers - MS thinks they are smarter than us when they are clearly not. They seem to think because people put up with rewards or airline miles and do all sorts of caluculations there, we'll fall for this ... the difference is that those are FREE and a bonus to your purchase if you so choose - this is EXACTLY like walking into a store and being told your money is no good, you have to trade it in for tokens. It's sad that it's not even the dumbest idea from MS this year ...

I kind of like the system to be honest, mainly because of what they will be doing with it rather than what it styarts off with. The point is you'll be able to use your microsoft points to buy music with your device if someone sends you a track you like. This isn't right off but is supposed to be in one of the firmware updates. Also they are useable on XBox Live services.

Personally would rather use drawing pins as contact lenses than go through using iTunes again, it's a woeful piece of software. It's great if your happy with doing everything the Apple way, but if you want to do something else then you're knackered. Same goes for the hardware, they look pretty and they have a nice control mechanism but the User Interface is once again 'the apple way' and you can't customise or alter it in any way. If you want new functionality you buy a new iPod. Zune devices have all the hardware, any new funtionality will be added to the device in one of the bi-annual updates so there is an element of future-proofing your device.

Iove the fact that people still see Apple as some force for good against the microsoft Evil, when they are probably more proprietary than anyone else with the possible exception of Sony. They use a crappy DRM format on their downloads (which is why a very low proportion of people actually use iTunes to buy music) and they are exepnsive - there is virtually no saving at all - I'd rather buy the CD and play it on anything I want rather than use their software.

Ultimately I imagine only about half of what MS say they are going to do will actually happen, but for those of us who don't like the way Apple tie you down so utterly - from the software you HAVE to use, the UI you HAVE to use to the very format you HAVE to buy your music in, it's plenty enough reason to finally use a player that is actually an iPod alternative.

"If a guy comes out onstage at Carnegie Hall and throws up you can always find some people who will call it art." (said Woody Allen).

This then is the vomit from Microsoft and unsurprsingly there will be at least a few blokes, who will actually buy into this "Points system" (taffysaint included), just because well .. the world has all sorts (I mean, if there are people that enjoy being tortured, beaten up and being crapped on, why can't there be Zune buyers?).

A mere 30GB, bulky iPod rip-off that promises as much trouble as the Win OS itself, even at its inception .. one can only imagine what the subsequent versions of this player/ service will be like.

And i have read reports of the poor DRM, cumbersome User Interface (Hardware, Software as well as the Store), the poor quality of the WMA format itself, the lack of great content/ lack of cool accessories and services .. i wouldn't be surprised if this deal backfired and Universal returned M$'s money saying "You'd do well to spend the cash on designing a good product that people will even want to buy in first place!".
(Ok, i am daydreaming here .. Universal will do no such thing! Neither would i, if i were Universal, to be perfectly honest].
:)

But then i will tread cautiously on this for the world is known to meekly buy in to some dumb ass system over time, so long as some behemoth comes along with sledgehammer marketing tactics, gives a smaller "acquisition cost" and screams the competition out of the arena and says to it's consumers, "You bloody well buy this"!
And in time you'll find people might even convince themselves that the Zune is better than the iPod! People can be made to believe anything so long as the message is yelled down at their faces repeatedly, after systematically eliminating all other choices they could possibly have.

It's Microsoft - 'Anything' can happen (and usually does)!
:o)

Ok, but just WHAT were taffysaint's complaints about the iPod-iTunes interface that couldn't be gotten around with lesser clumsiness (if not more elegantly) than with any 'solution' MS has ever offered, I wonder!

The thing is Skanoza, I haven't said that the Zune is the answer to all my iPod prayers, I am just happy that someone has tried something different instaed of some weak attempt at immitation. You wax lyrical about Marketing Sledgehammers like Apple's 'look at what all the Beautiful people use!' ads don't exist.

you act like iPods didn't have issues when they first came on the market. You said it yourself, software problems have hit Zune - software - which is updateable. A 'mere' 30GB is enough for most users, and it is only the first model after all.

You also slag off WMA, but Apple's format is equally if not more crappy, just like all DRM formats (which, again, you conveniently forget Apple did first).

as for iTunes,i don't like it. I'm sorry if that's alien to you, but this is why I generally don't argue with iBoys - it's like talking to religious fanatics. I appreciate you love your iPod and your iTunes, I really do, and thats fine. I like Media player 10 and 11 (earlier versions were a bit crappy) - I would just like people to rate things on what they are rather than on who made them, because ultimately I look at reviews for information with a little opinion ratehr than opinion with little iniformation.

I'd like to see reports of the cumbersome user interface too, because every review I have read - even the ones that rip the Zune apart - have said how excellent the UI is, to me it looks far more intelligent than the iPod tree system, but I'd be interested to see the downside of the Zune one. One of my biggest complaints about the iPod is the user interface so any info on the Zune's downsides in this department would be useful.

"But then i will tread cautiously on this for the world is known to meekly buy in to some dumb ass system over time, so long as some behemoth comes along with sledgehammer marketing tactics, gives a smaller "acquisition cost" and screams the competition out of the arena and says to it's consumers, "You bloody well buy this"!
"

I'm not being funny mate, but you've just described Apple's iPod marketing strategy.

I am going to buy another mp3 player soon and while searching for the best one for me, I came across the Ipod classic and the Zune. I loved what MS did with the new Zune and its features like the fm tuner, the larger screen, and the over all fucntionality and durability. I had it in my mind to buy the Zune but the Zune marketplace, and shall I say, thier retarded MS pionts was a huge turnoff. I enjoy using the easy one click to buy Itunes. I have no clue what MS was thinking in making every possible aspect of buying a single song so difficult. To add, Itunes has twice the amount of songs and video as Zune Market place.
Hopefully MS will get it straight in the future, or they'll never have a chance of contending against Apple and will eventually fall flat on thier face.

I have a Zune and will never switch to the Ipod, the software is pretty good, so there is no need, however when it comes to buying music, after my experience with the prepaid Zune cards that have MS points on them, I will never buy from Zune Marketplace again. The Itunes store works so much better for me, and unlike in the past, it will work perfectly fine with my Zune. I don't have a credit card so the Itunes cards are a Godsend. And when the Wal- Mart I shop at finally started selling the Zune cards, I thought that would be a Godsend as well but I was sadly mistaken. I had to continue to enter my redeem code off my Zune card countless times only to get the same error message over and over again. Once I finally found a way to get the points on my account, when I went to buy the songs I was looking for, they weren't available and these are songs from a known artist. My advice no matter if you have Zune or an Ipod just go to the Itunes store, because unless you have a credit card and get the Zune Pass, the Zune Marketplace doesn't offer anymore than the Itunes store does, it probably offers less.

Actually, you don't have to buy Mircosoft points every time you want a song or album. Instead, upon getting a Zune, you can get a Zune Pass and make month-to-month payments or you can pay for a full year, and you can get up to ten songs every month to keep forever. Plus, the first 14 days is free. Also, if you have an Xbox, you can pay with your Microsoft points there, but you'd still have to keep buying more and more Microsoft points. Just go here and see for yourself: http://www.zune.net/en-US/products/learningcenter/zunepass/default.htm

We use Microsoft points so money can be easily used on your Zune device, Xbox 360 console and in the Zune Marketplace. Also, many of our customers purchase a Zune Pass which makes Microsoft Points useless because you get unlimited song downloads and streaming as long as you have a subscription.

The points system is better, if MS is hacked then only the points you have are accessiable to the hacker. Alsoone thing you never mentioned is the zune pass service which is what many consumers want.